You may recall that Mrs Koda and I stood our bishop up for 'Tithing Settlement' last year. It was going to be an awkward encounter and neither of us felt ready for it. Part of me wanted to go in and get it over with, but the other part just wanted to hide away like a terrified little kid.
Yesterday I found myself sitting in the class I teach, when a knock on the door and a beckoning finger through the window summoned me outside. I used to be the guy who had to track down people for appointments, and it sucked, so I can empathize with the gentleman who was sent to find me.
I tried to be non-committal, but he got me scheduled for an appointment after the block. I thought about texting the Mrs to share the news with her, but decided not to. Sometimes ignorance truly is bliss. Instead I spent the remainder of the lesson with my mind racing through one scenario to another. Good thing I wasn't teaching, since mentally I was somewhere else.
The words of an obnoxious commenter on this blog a few months ago came back to haunt me as well. He called me a coward. It's bothered me ever since. Perhaps I am a coward. The problem is that I'm employed by Mormons, live in a predominantly Mormon neighborhood, and have extended family on both sides which are Mormon. While not a hard and fast rule, generally Mormons are prejudiced towards non-mormons to one degree or another, and being an ex-mormon is about as bad as you can be. Many will consider you a 'son of perdition' worse than murderers, adulterers and other people of a similar class. I'm terrified of the consequences of leaving, and meeting with the bishop is likely to be just another step along that road.
Of course with that said, I'm sick of hiding.
Mrs. Koda knew within seconds of me returning home that something was wrong. That was at 11:15 and the appointment was at 12:30. Before I continue... Mrs Koda is a wonderful woman, and I couldn't ask for a better wife. I feel very unworthy of her much of the time. She married a worthy priesthood holder a little over a decade ago, and I haven't turned out to be what she expected. And while she herself would rather go with the flow and not question things, she remains by my side.
She was a little upset that I didn't say no to the appointment. Truth be told, despite almost 4 years of knowing logically that the organization has no power over me, I still struggle with it emotionally. Perhaps I should have said no, but at the same time, I wanted the little dance to be over.
Fortunately she consented to coming in with me, and so we arrived shortly before our appointed time.
Our bishop is also our neighbor. As a neighbor, you couldn't ask for a nicer guy. Aside from the fact that his kid was letting of fire crackers around midnight last weekend, they're not a bad family at all.
He's also a runner, and a really fast one as well, and he's thinking about getting into triathlons too, so we have something in common there.
Unfortunately, he's also facing some personal health problems right now, and so that combined with a shared neighborhood, and the fact that he's a nice guy makes any kind of confrontation difficult.
We talked for a while and it was all very pleasant.
About 10 minutes in, he brought up the fact that he hadn't been able to see us for tithing settlement and was concerned that our records showed that no tithing had been paid. I confirmed that he was right.
He asked about our financial well-being, and did so in a very non-offensive way, so while it was none of his business, I felt the need to give a decent response. The truth of the matter is that financially, things suck for us right now, but we still have our home, and we're still making it through each month with food on the table. The credit card balance is a little out of control, but we're hoping to get a handle on it soon with some different ideas, but that's a whole other story.
He then stated that he wasn't trying to call us to repentance, but he wanted to know if there was something he could help us with. He asked if we wouldn't mind sharing why we no longer paid.
I thought about dropping the "If I want to invest in a mall, I'll do it myself" response, but I reverted instead to the real origin of my problems.
I spent too many years working for the Church.
I left it at that and he inferred that I had seen some things which disturbed me.
That is pretty much what happened. The problem is that while trying to resolve those things, I stumbled across other things, and ended up in an endless rabbit hole where each question was answered with even more questions and before I knew it, the entire foundation had crumbled before my eyes.
I still remember sitting on the bus one day while on the way home from work at the church office building, and the impression came to me as clear as the noon day sun. It isn't true, it isn't true. Shortly thereafter I quit working for them, so as to save my soul - ironic, no?
I think he was worried that his actions related to the light bulb incident two years ago may have been involved, and while they definitely factor into the process of my deconversion, I would hate him to think that his actions where the sole reason, or that I am that petty.
Anyway, he then asked about our temple recommends. Apparently he's not aware that I never got mine validated by the Stake two years ago (Largely due to the light bulb thing), and so Mrs. Koda took most of those questions. Hers expired yesterday and she doesn't have plan right now to renew it.
In my mind, she is just as worthy as anyone to hold a recommend, but the problem she has, is the same as mine. While it isn't officially one of the questions, it can be inferred from a couple of them. Holding a recommend is in many ways, a symbol of your commitment to 100% blind obedience to the organization, and that isn't something I can live with, and Mrs. Koda is concerned about it as well right now.
I thought it interesting that the bishop never mentioned worthiness, only that payment of tithing was a requirement to have one. I've talked about that in the past, and may again in the future.
We parted amiably, although interestingly without a prayer, which seemed a little strange - not that I minded though.
I suspect that this saga is far from over, but it does feel good to be over a hurdle of sorts.
While the tone was very casual and friendly, in essence, the entire appointment was basically just a front for our recommends to be taken back. It's the Church's way of telling us that we're not good enough to go to the temple. Although they have no problem with us being in positions where we are responsible for kids in their formative years. I want out of mine something fierce, but I have a reason for holding onto it for the next couple of months. I'll share more as that time approaches.
I think that realization hit Mrs. Koda far harder than I, but I still felt it's effect.
Logically we can see the problems with the whole thing, but at the same time, 30 years of brainwashing has a serious effect on a persons mental state when things like this happen.
We spent the rest of the afternoon, watching Angels and Demons - probably a rather fitting choice of movie, given the circumstances.
Looks like a new chapter in our lives together is beginning.
Your problems with the church, as you present them here, can be pretty easily divided into a few distinct categories. It's a complex web of issues, like a tangled cord. Sometimes, there truly are knots that take some serious untangling. Other times, what may seem like knots are just weird looking bends and kinks that unfold themselves as you work your way down.
ReplyDeleteThe real knots- well, I don't know if those can be resolved. You may end up, as a necessity, outside the church. But as your cyber acquaintance, I'd rather see that happen because of real, actual untangle-proof knots- not the little kinks and bends.
My wish for you isn't necessarily that you'll step back in line and become Joe Mormon again. It's not even that you'll "see the light." I do wish you'd make a definitive decision and act on it, either way. Get out of this limbo. BUT, do it with an open mind, divorced as much as possible from emotion, and with as much research to inform you as possible. Sift the kinks from the knots, my friend.
I don't think I know about this light bulb thing. Have you blogged about it?
ReplyDeleteKuri - I did, about 2 years ago, and a few times since. It's one of those kinks and bends which Mr. Sirmize refers to. Something really stupid, which was blown way out of proportion. By itself, probably not a big deal, but it was incredibly embarrassing, and not handled well at all. I think the most comprehensive description was here.
ReplyDeleteMr. Sirmize, I can definitely appreciate your feelings and am deeply grateful for your friendship - I think it goes a little deeper than 'cyber-acquaintance'. A great deal of what I've blogged about over the past few years has of necessity just been the trivial and ultimately inconsequential stuff. There is far more which I haven't blogged about, which is not possible to share due to legal agreements and concern about being targeted by the committee which monitors those who criticize the church online.
If I was a single guy, believe me, I would have gotten out of limbo a long time ago, but when you mix a religion, which is as involved in it's members lives as Mormonism is, and then factor in having a family as well and all the little tentacles that involves. It becomes far more complicated.
Ultimately it comes down to fear. I've faced discrimination in the past because of my affiliation with the Church. I'm terrified of facing it again and directing it onto my family, just from the other side this time. Mormons as a bunch are very pleasant, loving people, but they have an incredibly nasty streak if you walk away from the fold. I've witnessed this streak multiple times, and regrettably have been a part of it too in the past.
You know I'm coming at this with absolutely no inside knowledge of the workings of the Mormon culture... but reading your account actually gave me a bit of hope about your situation.
ReplyDeleteYour bishop seems like a caring, genuine person (albeit ingrained in the rules rules rules of the religion). You and your wife haven't done anything radical that would lead to excommuication.
You have major problems and issues with the church organization and even the very beliefs you relied on... yet, some core values and truths remain. You care about people, and many of the people in the church. You are committed to family. You want to honor truth, and do all things with integrity (I am inferring).
From my pov, NOT renewing the recommend is a giant demonstration of integrity on your part. The Mormon church demands 100% commitment to some concepts for a recommend, and you, with your good ol' Mormon integrity, can't commit to them 100% right now (or ever). But amidst all the confusion you ARE committed as ever to what may possible be the real, true, core, lasting legacies of the church... love others, serve others, family first, etc. etc.
Is it possible in your circle to be "taking a break," so to speak? As in, "I know without a doubt certain things about the church are true." Note: love, family, blah blah, but who says you have to elaborate, right? "Rather than get caught up in an emotional inward debate about controversial aspects of the church, publicly known and in my own private dealings, I feel the need to step back a bit, and quietly concentrate on those things I know are holy and true, so that I can continue to live true to myself and church teachings." Again, no need to specify which teachings. "I truly love the people of the church and the principles that have guided me, and have no plan or desire to lead anyone astray. This is just a step on my own personal spiritual journey, a trial I must persevere through, and I want to do it with as much as integrity as possible."
Would this kind of approach give you some space, get people to back off, while answering enough of their questions that they don't start firing up the scarlet letter branding irons? Seems like a big poison in these situations is the paranoia (reasonable or not) that rises up on both sides, especially when assumptions are made, and the story gets bigger and further from the truth, etc.
Is it possible to influence how key leaders perceive your situation and actions, to where they see then as evident of your spirituality, rather than apostasy?
clink
Thanks Clink!! You're awesome and I think you nailed it on the head with a lot of that.
ReplyDeleteTaking a break might be a dodgy way of putting it at least in the eyes of the hierarchy, but that would be an approach I think we'd like to take.
Where we left off yesterday, was that we were working through some challenges (related to stuff I'd experienced while an employee of the organization.) and if we needed help, then we'd let them know. I like the door is always open approach, and that seems to be where it's at right now.
Of course I kind of had the same arrangement with some extended family last year, and then weeks later it got slammed in my face, so who knows!
I'm in a good position though - at least as far as I see it. I haven't committed any grievous sin (well, some might see this blog as outright apostasy) but aside from that, I'm actually living a very clean and mormony life. (no coffee comments from the peanut gallery - OK?!)
Mormons really like to hold their leaders up as being next to perfect, which I think breeds more problems that it solves, but it is, what it is.
If I experienced behavior amongst those leaders and the organization of the Church, which I found distasteful, members aren't going to want to dig into the details.
At the very worst, they might assume I have some unresolved sins in my life, or that I just wasn't strong enough to begin with, but I think for the most part, they'll leave us alone, which is fine by me.
As for returning to full fellowship... Mr. Sirmize talked about seeing the light, which I can relate to, although I think we're seeing different light. I have seen a light of sorts, but it's not coming from inside the organization. It's something else entirely and fills me with such incredible optimism and enthusiasm for life that I can't realistically foresee any circumstance that would lead me back into the fold.
But if I've learned anything... It's never say never. I used to tell people that I knew the LDS Church was true with such conviction that I would never leave...
Koda- good luck to you! You are definitely no coward. You chose to pursue knowledge despite the fact that maybe it wouldn't be what would make you the most comfortable. Most people choose not to seek because they are afraid. They are afraid of getting out of their comfort zone.
ReplyDeleteYou have chosen to pursue knowledge, to grow and develop. And yes, being in Utah, and being surrounded by Mormons makes it a VERY difficult situation indeed.
You guys take care. And keep an honest and open dialogue with your bishop. "Coming out" to our bishop and then our families was the hardest part, but we are already feeling as though the worst has been put behind us. Things will be ok.
Hi Koda, you’re not a coward, you just really care about how your decision will affect the relationships you have with your parents and other family, and that says a lot about your character.
ReplyDeleteLike you said, it’s all those tentacles that make the decision difficult. The whole thing is systemic and interconnected.
My wife is going through this with her family right now. You’re totally right about the nastiness. My in-laws haven’t been as bad as some, but wow they can sure drop you like a hot potato as soon as you express doubt or disbelief.
Hang in there!
Thanks Hypatia, that does give me some hope. We still need to cross the hump with my wife's family - we kind of are, but they don't know about her feelings, nor the extent of mine.
ReplyDeleteWe're kinda glad our bishop knows, or at least suspects things are a little awry.
My family... I'm still unsure on that one. I think my siblings all know - The email which was sent out by my father last year stating that I didn't want to be a part of the family anymore likely clued them in, if they weren't already. I'm still in contact with all of them, with perhaps 1 exception. My parents on the other hand... Not sure if that relationship will ever be repaired. The problem is that they are masters of manipulation and they seem to get off on their little games. Even if they start being nice, there's the concern in the back of our minds that it's a ploy to get to our children.
HLS - Thanks for the support as well - I perused your blog briefly this morning and I'm thinking I'll have to spend more time there in the future.
I would love to know just what percentage of the Church is currently feeling like this, and I'm sure there is an even larger contingent who are still incognito, terrified of taking the leap into the unknown or being ostracized for expressing a level of doubt.
A lady in Church a few years back talked about how she was struggling to accept it all, which was probably the most sincere testimonies I've heard in a while, and when she was done, the ward gossip chain ripped her to absolute shreds. It was sickening to say the least.
I would too, I suspect there are a lot of people in this kind of situation. Many stay in to keep their marriage in tact, to preserve relationships with extended family, and for some activity in the church is even tied to employment or running a business.
ReplyDeleteGossip in the church does more damage than people realize. Have you seen the teen suicide rates for Utah? I don't know if it is directly related to the church, but obviously all is not well in "zion."
In a past ward we had a member of the bishopric that loved to talk about everybody's problems. His wife could have run her own tabloid newsletter for the ward.
Koda, I don't consider you a coward AT ALL. This post was very honest, and you seem to be traveling your path at the right speed. I would just keep following it as it comes. You're handling things just fine.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I just read the link to the light bulb story and don't get it. Why would anyone object that you illustrated the story with an actual light bulb. What am I missing here?
ReplyDeleteThanks Alan!
ReplyDeleteI think the light bulb story is indicative of some major problems within the Church. Perhaps a few more details could add more to the story...
I began by making a brief reference to science, and stated that I felt that since science and religion were both seeking the truth that at some point in the future they would intersect. No response from the congregation or the bishopric at all. You would think that would have raised some eye-brows... It wasn't till I said it that I realized the potential for uneasiness that phrase could have caused.
After the bishop stopped me and asked me to put the light bulb in my pocket, he spent the rest of the time apologizing. I'm trying to salvage the talk, trying to get my frame of thought back into it, and all the time behind me, I can hear him whispering... "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm sorry...."
I think the Church, at least from my experiences in the last 2 wards we've been in, is headed in much the same direction as Judaism had been headed in at the time of Christ. The reasons for the commandments had long since been forgotten, and the focus had shifted to micro-managing people lives and controlling every aspect of their behavior in the smallest way possible.
I think I would have to agree with Clink. I once had a Sunday school teacher who explained to our class that he made the decision to stop teaching us because he was having some issues with the church. He expressed similar sentiments that Clink suggested. That action made me have an incredible amount of respect for him and his wife. I was amazed at his integrity and honesty. I am sure people judged them because of their choice to take a break, but from the sounds of it, people were judging regardless.
ReplyDelete