So a week or two back, I mentioned that we had been invited to our home teachers house for a BBQ... You can read the original post here.
I thought I should probably post a follow-up on how the visit went.
It was really interesting, I felt a little awkward at first, but I think they were trying to feel us out as well. Perhaps let me start with the impression that I left with...
I think they're still TBM's, but I think they are having some doubts about the organization. When they met, he wasn't a member and she wasn't active... They got married, moved to Utah, and after a barrage of missionaries and fellowshipping efforts, he got baptized. He's always been very enthusiastic about the Church, and as such has found himself in an EQ Presidency and most recently as the Ward Mission leader.
I've always assumed that he was the life of the party in his part of the neighborhood, but it turns out that they haven't really felt a connection with any of their neighbors...
There were a few interesting things which happened during our visit.
First, he hesitated at one point, and then asked if all stakes were as weird as ours... It turns out that apparently our Stake President has issued a list of forbidden activities, which includes any game involving face cards, backyard bunko and a number of other completely innocent games. I've known there were some wacky ideas floating around, but the fact that there is an actual list... Wow!!
Next, he and I were talking outside, and the topic of vasectomies came up... Apparently a neighbor was going to get one, and the Stake President found out about it, and went ape-shit on him. My friend thought this was a little weird, until I mentioned that it was actually prescribed against in the Church Handbook of Instructions (CHI)...
I think he's been a member about 6 years, and has never heard of the CHI...
For those who don't know, the CHI is a secret book, which is given to specific leaders, and is not to be shared with the general membership. It contains all the special rules about how to run meetings and how to deal with various indiscretions. Every so often, some external group will get hold of it, and post a PDF version online... It's usually available for a little while until the Church's attack attorneys manage to get it taken down.
Finding out about the CHI kind of shocked my friend. He wants to see it, and I told him that I believed he could look at it in the Bishop's office, under his supervision if he wanted to - Although there is always a good chance that has been forbidden in our stake as well.
I find myself wondering if I should hook him up with a copy though... I have a source... Or would it be more advantageous to his quest for knowledge to try and find it online...
Anyway, the whole CHI thing kind of threw him for a loop - even though I didn't intend it too, and it was really, really hard not to seize the moment and jump on the Church.
Anyway, interesting experience, for sure. Our kids got on well, and they are genuine and fun people. I think we may have to extend a dinner invitation to them in the next couple of weeks to continue the conversation.
oh the CHI. What I wouldn't give for a copy of that.
ReplyDeleteI should look it up.
Seriously, though. Dat shit is whack.
And it is hard to be given an opportunity--even a sliver of one--and not jump on the church. My BIL visited the other day and kept saying weird things. Not overtly weird, but def not TBM things. I had to bite my tongue BIG TIME.
Best of luck with these people. It would be nice to have someone nearby who felt the same way about the church, even though those beginning stages of disaffection are pretty rough.
I am Facebook friends with a woman in my ward who just posted pictures from girls camp. I noticed that all the girls were wearing long pants (jeans) in the pictures, but I the stake leaders were wearing capri’s (at least I assume they were stake leaders because they were all wearing t-shirts that said “steak” on them). I don’t know if the girls were told to not wear shorts, but I can’t imagine not wearing shorts to a camp in August in Utah. This just makes me soooo glad I don’t go anymore. That kind of crap really irritates me!
ReplyDeleteTGW... You've heard my Stake Girls Camp story - right? Lat year, all the girls were commanded (And then asked to sign contracts) that they would only wear long pants (I think capri's were OK, but frowned upon).
ReplyDeleteAnd then when they got back the Stake President stood up and talked about how they had all felt the spirit more because they had been obedient to the commandments of their Stake President... F#*king egotistical piece of S&#t!!
Anyway, I know the Heber Girls Camp requires long pants, but that has to do with safety and tick avoidance - and the temps are a lot cooler up there, but I think that was where he got the idea.
Best of luck with these people. It would be nice to have someone nearby who felt the same way about the church, even though those beginning stages of disaffection are pretty rough.
ReplyDeleteThrough series of fortunate events, we've actually connected with another family fairly close to us - The blogosphere is great, but actually having contact in person is awesome.
If these guys are on the way out though, me and Mrs Koda are hopeful that we can be a support to them through the process, because... Those beginning stages are ROUGH!
I think I have 3 or 4 that I've never given back. Truth be told, the idea of a secret book is more exciting than what is actually in the book. It really isn't that earth-shattering.
ReplyDeleteTrue... It is mildy amusing how seriously they take it though.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the big reason it's kept out of the hands of the regular folks is simply to keep the leadership above criticism.
Unfortunately, that then requires the leadership to regulate themselves, and lets be honest here... They don't exactly do the best job of that.
Oh it's the same problem that's existed all throughout history. Our "leaders" are supposed to be our servants and thus have no actual power over us, but when they think they do have power, they clamp down on it and never let go.
ReplyDeleteAnd in thinking outside the box I have to wonder about how many girls wear pants not because it's suddenly a commandment that's come down from on high through the stake president, but rather because these young, attractive teenage girls don't want creepy old fogies leering at them.
ReplyDeleteThen again given the average intellect and self-respect of a young Mormon girl, I also wonder how many of them even consider that.
One last thing: What is the huge fear the church has over a deck of cards? Are they afraid someone's going to break out a game of Poker and get everyone in attendance hooked on gambling.
ReplyDeleteI'm in a young single adult ward, ages 18-30+ and we've had face cards at numerous activities and game nights held INSIDE THE CHAPEL, but when we were forbidden from taking them along on the ward campout at the end of last month, that basically finalized my decision to NOT go. I'm not an outdoors person so if I'm stuck outside somewhere I always make sure to have three things: My DS/PSP, my iPod, and a deck of cards.
Yeah - I suspect the old folgies thing probably hasn't crossed their minds... After all, these men are incredibly close to being Gods themselves, and as such are immune to immoral thoughts around young women...
ReplyDeleteFace Cards... Don't really know... Perhaps they are too strong of a reminder of the lifestyle in Las Vegas... One minute you're playing cards, and then next you're in a strip joint, with a quart of beer, a cigarette out one side of your mouth, playing poker with one hand and slipping a dollar into a hookers g-string with the other.
Or maybe one of the prophets saw the devil playing with them...
Me thinks it's time for a Google search!
OK... From the pen of the infamous Bruce R. McConkie in the 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine:
ReplyDeleteCARD PLAYING
See Apostasy, Gambling, Recreation. President Joseph F. Smith has stated the position of the Church with reference to card playing in these words: "Card playing is an excessive pleasure; it is intoxicating and, therefore, in the nature of a vice. It is generally the companion of the cigarette and the wine glass, and the latter lead to the poolroom and the gambling hall... Few indulge frequently in card playing in whose lives it does not become a ruling passion... A deck of cards in the hands of a faithful servant of God is a satire upon religion... Those who thus indulge are not fit to administer in sacred ordinances... The bishops are charged with the responsibility for the evil, and it is their duty to see that it is abolished... No man who is addicted to card playing shall be called to act as a ward teacher; such men cannot be consistent advocates of that which they do not themselves practice.
"The card table has been the scene of too many quarrels, the birthplace of too many hatreds, the occasion of too many murders to admit one word of justification for the lying, cheating spirit which it too often engenders in the hearts of its devotees...
"Card playing is a game of chance, and because it is a game of chance it has its tricks. It encourages tricks; its devotees measure their success at the table by their ability through devious and dark ways to win. It creates a spirit of cunning and devises hidden and secret means, and cheating at cards is almost synonymous with playing at cards." (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., pp. 328-332.)
Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards nor have them in their homes. By cards is meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are out of harmony with their inspired leaders. Innocent non-gambling games played with other types of cards, except for the waste of time in many instances, are not objectionable.
I remember screwing around with face cards as a kid... And here I am!
Other references I found, also reference that Face Cards were derived from Tarot Cards, and they're very occultist.
I suspect the reason might be as stated above though... Fun is evil.
On face cards, Joseph F. Smith was indeed dead set against them. I think that (besides their unsavory association with gambling) the real point was that in his day, there weren't really many leisure activities available (no radio even!), and playing cards was one of the few activities that was a pure "waste of time." Instead of playing cards, people should have been reading, knitting, making something, studying the gospel, or whatever.
ReplyDeleteThat being the case, I think it makes zero sense to single out non-gambling games with "face cards" today (as if they're somehow different from card games like Uno, for example), when there are dozens and dozens more "unproductive" time-wasting leisure activities available today. It's pure anachronism, imo.
Lisa (and anyone else who's interested),
ReplyDeleteYou can download a copy of the CHI from Wikileaks.
So face cards are evil because people use 'em in casinos and gambling halls. By that same logic everything in the world is evil because, at some point, someone with evil intentions used 'em for their evil purposes. I guess I'd better stop eating because evil people have consumed the same kinds of foods.
ReplyDeleteCareful Dave... I'm sure at some point, and evil man has fasted to prepare himself to perpetrate some evil deed.
ReplyDeleteWhich I guess leaves us only one option, and as I have often said...
Accepting that you're going to hell is the most liberating feeling on earth!
Oh but I'm having far too much fun telling people that the president of the church is still just a man and that, more often that not, he's only speaking his own opinion.
ReplyDeleteThere's quite a bit of difference in the phrase "the prophet said" vs. "the Lord said, through the prophet..."