I need to meet with my bishop.
But it's not what you think. I'm still firm in my knowledge that the whole thing is a sham.
Should I bear you my testimony?
OK, I'll spare you that!!
It was a great weekend, although it did have the potential to bad.
It was the annual primary kids sacrament presentation. If we still went to church with any regularity, and if I still believed in it, it would have been a day filled with disapointment.
For those of you who don't know, once a year, all the kids aged 3 to 12 get to present a program in the main meeting. The entire year seems to be geared towards this program. All the songs need to be learned, parts memorized and rehearsed, and everyone and their dog comes out to watch it.
My kids have generally learned the songs well, memorized their parts, and yet when the big day finally came, they'd become paralyzed with fear, and then when the time came for them to perform their part, they'd crouch back into their chairs, shake their heads and make grunts generally intended to dissuade whichever well intentioned teacher was trying to get them to do something.
I was that teacher one year with my oldest son - not the best memories there!
Anyway, one thing that really used to bug my wife and I, was the families who didn't show up all year, attended the last rehearsal and then showed up in brand new dresses with all the extended family in tow, and performed flawlessly. I can picture it all clearly in my mind, even now.
I don't know why it bugged us so much. Perhaps subconsiously, I was feeling cheated. I (and my kids) had put in all the work, attended all the boring ass meetings, and someone got the glory without even trying. And there I was, unsuccessfully trying to convince my 6 year old to get up and do his thing.
Anyway... Since we haven't been to church much this year, we decided our kids weren't going to be participating.
Grandma (The nice one) has been asking when it was going to be, and since Mrs Koda doesn't want to have THE conversation with her just yet, she's just kind of put her off.
I should interject at this point, that this is going to be a long post - but I will cover the nature of my upcoming meeting with the bishop at the very end, if you want to skip down!
Anyway, all was going well and we were even thinking that perhaps the whole sacrament presentation thing had passed... And then Mrs Koda and her mother were at Walmart two weeks ago doing some shopping. Walmart seems to be a bad place for Mrs Koda and her mom to be together. I don't know if I blogged it, but that was the exact place where 6 months ago, one kid enthusiastically blurted out something about... "That's the coffee maker Dad wants!".
Anyway, after walking by the coffee makers with no incidents this time, they then walk right into one of the primary councillors.
"Oh! I've been meaning to stop by and give your kids their parts for the primary program!"
I can't say for sure what Mrs Koda was thinking, but I think it was likely along the lines of...
"SHIT! SHIT! SHIT!"
Anyway, Grandma Koda in Law lights up, and asks about the date.
"Oh - it's Sunday the 21st! And will you be coming to see your beautiful Grand Children?"
Anyway, it was not a good night for marital bliss in the Koda household that night.
By last week though, we suspected that Grandma Koda in Law had forgotten, but I could sense some definite tension from Mrs Koda.
Grandma regularly spends Thursdays with her Daughter.
I called around noon to ensure that everything was still OK.
And while I was calling, the doorbell rang.
Mrs Koda seemed distracted, muttered something and then hung up the phone.
It turns out the very same lady had stopped by to drop off the parts and offer us a reminder.
Grandma had indeed forgotten!
CRAP!
Anyway, Mrs Koda talked about the kids shyness issues and then stated for both ladies that our children would most likely not be there.
Anyway, yet another shitty night for marital relations.
By Friday things were looking up, and by Saturday, we were having an awesome weekend.
We slept in Sunday, and while the kids played out in the snow, Mrs Koda and I started to get caught up on things around the house and plan the rest of our day.
It was all going well until shortly after noon.
Church gets out at noon, and so the neighborhood is once again filled with kids.
We, and a couple of other families on the street have a strict, "No Friends on Sunday" policy. For us it isn't religious, we just need a break from other peoples snot nosed kids.
Our 6 year old came into the room where me, Mrs Koda and the 8 year old were working on a school project, and informed us that the girl from across the street was at the door and needed to see her.
This girls family has a no friends policy as well.
The 8 year old went to see what was up, with clear instructions that it was a no-friends day.
She returned shortly thereafter with a stack of papers.
Her class had all colored in pictures for her - even though half of them don't even know who she is.
Her friend was assigned to drop them by and invite her to come back to church.
In my daughters words "I think she was about to cry". And apparently the bishops daughter really wants my daughter to come back as well.
My kids have already been singled out, because they don't go to Church. The same bishop's daughter told them a few weeks back, that they were not welcome at some event, because they don't go to Church anymore. And there have been some other nasty little incidents too.
I get the mentality of the teacher, since I used to be there, but at the same time. You're singling my kids out as 'Less-Actives' and making sure all their friends know it.
And don't even get me started on all the manipulation - my son got a taste of it at his pack meeting on Thursday night as well.
I was frustrated, I was angry, and if I could do it without potential negative effects on my wifes relationship with her parents, my resignation letter, including the names of my children, would have already been sent in.
But unfortunately we have to deal with the hand dealt us.
I posted a question online about anonymity surrounding resignations and got some really good advise, and different things to consider.
Perhaps the most poignant piece of advise was about setting boundaries.
That's why I need to meet with the bishop. It's time for boundaries to be set. I'm going to try and be civil about it, but I am prepared to play dirty if need be.
I will respectfully ask that the primary organization be insructed to leave our kids alone. I am also going to request that we no longer have any official visits from church representatives.
Hopefully he'll be decent about it, and will agree to my request.
If he doesn't, or if visits persist, I'm going to plan B.
Either the visits and mind games with my kids stop, or I start informing the membership about Joseph threatening 14 year old girls into marriage and effectively raping them. And then I'll inform them about the polyandry and all the other crap he was involved in... Need I continue?
I suspect that would give him enough ammunition to initiate disciplinary measures against me, but I would hope that in the face of potential loss of additional members, he'd simply agree to my request.
Of course you never know. My stake is linked to the home stake of one of the September 6, so you never know what button my threats may push.
Oh, my heart breaks for your kids being singled out! But at the same time, yeah, I get where they're coming from because I've been there. I hope you're able to set some acceptable boundaries.
ReplyDeleteSorry you all are dealing with this. So awful when you can't just live your religion or non-religion in peace.
ReplyDeleteKoda, please remember that you are always welcome at our house. Feel free to come by and vent some frustrations with us. We should arrange a family get-together again.
ReplyDeleteIn all honesty I hope you don't have to rely on Plan B, mainly because doing so will make you look like the bad guy in their eyes and you'll be labeled as "another apostate who can't leave the church alone."
ReplyDeleteA lot of people simply refuse to let go of completely blind faith, especially in something or someone they deem as infallible, until what they have their faith in betrays them.
One example, I'm mad at myself for being the one at fault in a car accident last week, but that was nothing compared to how pissed off I got at the church for its "Veterans Day Tribute" broadcast of Music and the Spoken Word; the rerun of which I saw Sunday morning. A photo montage of soldiers fully armed, geared for battle, and even firing their weapons does NOT connect with a claim to worship the Prince of Peace.
I believe one of the most important skills we learn as exmos is how to set appropriate boundaries. It's necessary and very empowering. In my experience most Mormons respect them. They don't like them, they may whisper nasty things behind your back, but they generally don't cross them.
ReplyDeleteA good friend of mine left LDS Inc. some years ago. She did not believe but was rather ambivalent about her membership until the members started trying to recruit her kids. She provided LDS Inc. with formal notice that she terminated her and her children's memberships shortly after that. Mormons do not comprehend how inappropriate it is to recruit children. So sorry you guys are having to deal with that.
You know in any other situation what's happening to your kids would be called what it is: bullying. And they're under instructions from adults! This is just completely unacceptable behavior, from children or grown women and men. Who thinks that way? "we'll make the kids feel left out and hated, and then they'll be sure to whine to their parents to come back to church!" That's disgusting.
ReplyDeleteUghhhh....and agreed!
ReplyDeleteSometimes I wonder if it would've been better to leave when our kids were smaller like yours, than to wait till they're all adults and have firm testimonies. At least you're all in this together and you can still have the same beliefs together. Our kids are all divided from us in our decision, and it's pretty tough sometimes.
ReplyDeleteThere are a lot of kids out there in your same kids situation and they'll make friends who understand their situation. Personally, I would welcome getting my kids out of it - get rid of the mind games in the church, and the younger the better.
@Fanny - Yes, I definitely think we're sparing them some pain and heart-ache later in life.
ReplyDeleteIf for any reason they decide to go back or join when they turn 18, they'll have our full support.
We just want to raise them with good standards and secure in the knowledge that they are the ones responsible for their own decision and that they don't need to answer to us.
Fortunately they've already found a couple of friends who are in similar situations...
@Bowie - THANK YOU! Your and Blondies friendship is invaluable, and the same open invitation exists over at our place too!!
@Carla - It's amazing what evil acts are considered OK, because God thinks it's OK.
@Everyone else - THANKS!! I think there's a little bit of "What doesn't kill them, will make them stronger", but it still sucks have to experience it.
Being one of only a couple of members in my high school, I still remember what it was like to be a bit of a 'freak' in the minds of others - not the greatest feeling in the world - especially when someone found the "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet in my pencil case and it erupted in a class discussion.
Of course on the other hand, when I told one girl that I hadn't slept with anyone at age 18, and she responded in a very loud voice... "WHAT!?! YOU'RE A VIRGIN?" - Now that really helped my dating life - Apparently being the first girl to conquer a guy down where I was living was huge - If only I hadn't been so clueless at the time!
I recently made the decision to attend graduate school at BYU (where I graduated from with my BA). I knew I would have to start attending church again even though I considered myself to be an exmormon in my heart. I thought I could do it again. I decided that I did not want my son to set one foot in church with me for multiple reasons. They did not get the message and started doing the love bombing to him, against my wishes. I also did not want priesthood leaders coming into my home as home teachers, making sure they were making my home good enough for a son without a father (I'm a SMBC).
ReplyDeleteIn the end, I just couldn't take it and couldn't even bring myself to go through it all again and go back to church, so I moved away from Provo and am now licking my wounds of starting to feel "less than" or inactive in the Provo community because that translated as "bad mom" in their world.
So I can relate to a little bit of this and it makes me happy that I will avoid going through this when my son is older (he's just a toddler now). So thanks for this post because it made me realize the future stress I am avoiding. I'm sorry you're having to deal with it though. I hope they respect your boundaries better in the future and don't try to make your children feel "less than". You sound like an excellent parent, so I'm sure they'll be fine because they can see through their tactics I'm sure and will look to you for guidance about these things. So good luck with all of this.
We just got invited to a local Mormon Stake Christmas sing-along and since I'm a musician and my son loves music, I thought it would be nice to go. This invitation was extended to me minutes before reading your post, so now I'm having second thoughts about going. I never know what activities they invite me to that are just innocent, kindly neighborly things to do or when they might have other motives to try to suck me back to church or to start my son on the whole track. It's hard to tell. I want to assume the best in people and that they invite people to activities in communities just to welcome new people and be neighborly, but I just never know for sure when it comes to Mormon leaders. It's a tricky road to navigate. I want to be a warm and open person, but I don't want to end up being tricked or manipulated by insincerity. Anyway, good luck navigating all of this yourself and with your family.
Don't leave it at the 14-y-o girls though. That was sooooo common back then and most Mormons are peeeerfectly fine with it. You should throw it all out there, WHY Cowdery was kicked out, Joseph Smith's understanding of hieroglyphics with the BoM and the book of Abraham, the found papyrus scrolls, the Kinderhook plates, the polyandry with Orson's wife while he was away on a mission, Adam-God ''theory'' as it was taught in general conference and the temples for years. Don't just throw a couple out there! If you're gonna throw some crap at them and get in trouble for it then bring in the dump truck! ;P
ReplyDeleteIn a book I read recently (on marriage of all things), the author said that you have no right to complain about *not* getting what you never asked for. I guess the corollary is that you have no right to complain about getting what you never asked to not receive.
ReplyDeleteBeing a former member of the church, you must have a pretty clear understanding of Christ's parable of the lost sheep. If people are trying to (imperfectly) follow His example in befriending you or your children, more power to them. Assuming, as you point out in your title, that you have *not* explained to the Bishop that you don't want any of this befriending or contact. Assuming you have never made this clear, then by their *not* knowing about your secret annoyed, irritated, angry, bothered thoughts, what are you blaming them for? Here are people simply inviting you to something, people who are just putting something out there who don't have any idea you really don't even want it to be offered, and it is having such a negative internal effect inside you, completely without their knowledge. What is the point of all this angst and anger on your part? And then you post about it to bemoan your unfortunate position of "Why don't these people know that I don't want this? I'm just going to have to say something." Well, what a surprise. You just might have to explain to people what you do or do not want, so that they know.
On my mission, we wasted much time going back to try and find people who "weren't home", basically just hiding, not willing to tell us that they simply weren't interested. We would have preferred that and would have been perfectly fine with it, and could have spent our time in much more productive ways.
If you really aren't interested, as you say, I'm sure that the Bishop and other ward members (like the poor folks assigned to be your home and visiting teachers) will be happy to know that, because who wants to waste their time? Who wants to bother people?
The "wee chat" is really necessary, despite your tongue-in-cheek presentation, because ex-mormon or not, no one can read your mind, and apparently not everyone is reading your blog.
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ReplyDeleteI think DW that this post was inspired by the young girl who was sent to drop off the pictures to Kodas daughter. It sounds as though the girl was not comfortable with the task. This is the kind of thing that ex-mo's get annoyed about, and justifiably so, we're talking about children here! The members of my Ward had the decency to send all Primary activity invites to me, addressed to me and not the children. So I was able to open them and decide what to do. My children have not been lobbied by any LDS members. I understand your point about setting boundaries with adults because as you say people don't know what you do or don't want unless you tell them but... when it comes to children, adults should know better. Children are not pawns.
ReplyDeleteAs for the annoyance you've read here that is the nature of blogs, space to vent, very therapeutic.
It sounds like maybe they were just trying to teach the girls some positive behaviors and attitudes. Rather than say things like people are not welcome because they don't go to church anymore. They apparently had some lesson about welcoming others, *even if you don't know them*.
ReplyDeleteI agree children should not be used as pawns. This would definitely be applicable if the adults in question knew that the parents didn't want such contact and were using the children to get around it. But assuming the parents or the teacher didn't know that (because, hey, we can't read their minds either), maybe they were just recognizing that a kid who used to go (and who apparently some of the kids did actually know) wasn't going anymore. Negative incidents had occurred that possibly the adults found out about and didn't want feeling unwelcome to be the reason they weren't coming.
So the girl didn't want to drop off the papers. Might a kid not want to help volunteer at a soup kitchen and yet might it still be a good thing to bring the kid? Are you making the kid a pawn by teaching them the value of serving others? I think the kid is more a pawn if you *don't* teach them how to be a positive member of society.
In this situation, feeling unwelcome is not the reason, it's more that the parent(s) have a problem with the Church, which is unfortunate, but perfectly legitimate. Hopefully it's not because *they* felt unwelcome at some point.
It just seemed like the tone of the whole story, the feelings about interaction with the Church people ("SHIT! SHIT! SHIT!"), while humorous, seemed ultimately pretty immature and sad if examined seriously. If you really feel this way, if you really, truly don't want any contact, invitations, etc., why haven't you just told the people long, long ago that you don't want this? Why isn't your name removed, or at least why aren't you on the "no contact' list? Your solution is "hiding"? ("Oh no, they've found us! What will we do? We'll be forced to go to sacrament meeting because we are unable to just say no!") Are you 14 years old and just too shy to talk to another grown-up or something?
If you really don't want this, then move on. Find that "something better" -- it's your "personal quest", right? So why are you still here, still so obsessed with the Church? Why are you spending all this time and effort rehashing something that you have supposedly rejected as ultimately inferior? It's like you're still trying to convince yourself and justify your decision to leave the church, like you are still hanging on for some reason.
Yes you are welcome, you'll always be welcome, no matter who's in the ward and no matter what rude thing the bishop's kid (or the bishop) says. But if you really don't want it, then just move on. Talk to a therapist if you need to, make some new friends, find some new interests. But continually rehashing all this? What's the point?
Wow DW! I'm really impressed the way you pointed out that I am both immature and that my sharing of my frustrations with the Mormon church is sad. Obviously, the very nice Church people just want to help us feel welcome at Church, because as you so rightly pointed out, the Church is just about welcoming people and helping them feel loved.
ReplyDeleteI think what impressed me most was that you did all of that, without coming off as a condescending hypocrite. You're so much better than me.
Even when you were bitching and whining about me bitching and whining.
KUDOS!!
There is however, one minor flaw in your otherwise brilliant commentary on my personal post, here on my personal blog...
You don't know me and you don't know the whole story of my life.
Oh, and the little fact that while the Church likes to appear to be all warm and welcoming...
It actually isn't... Especially to folks like me who have doubts.
I could go on, but I doubt you, like all the other sheeple don't like hearing about stuff like that.
How about you simply follow your own advise and move on as well. Eh?
Every one has their own circumstances so what and when you decide what ever it is, I'm sure will be the best for you. All I can add is leaving it all behind was perhaps the best move I've ever made. All the events you expressed will be over and you can start to live you life without the mindless adventures.
ReplyDeleteHeya Koda,
ReplyDeleteJust came across this blog, through blog hopping via comments on a local blog to me...
mate (aussie slang for friend) though blessed without progeny, and neither an LDS member ex member or member of any religous organisation, one thing I have to say, at least in the blog-o-sphere, is that I have a LOT of respect for both Mormons n ex Mormons alike...
Tho you are going through some nasty effects of "apparant" rule based recruitment methods for which you have both my sympathy and support as you have the well thought out welfare of your kids in mind, I would like to throw this into the hat...
as ADULTS mormons and ex-mormons.. in general and in my opinion.. have a far superior concept of community, human love, aand acceptance of others, perhaps through that part of LDS teachings.. than any other specific group I know "touched" by organised modern religion.
So I hoppe you can resolve your issues without further Ire, and kudos for your openness.
;)
Joe Smith truly was a prophet.
ReplyDeleteHe predicted the future with amazing accuracy.
"Here's how you'll know the church is true," he said. "If people ever leave it, they won't be able to leave it alone."
And that is true for most exes. I left three years ago and I still haven't let go of my hate toward it.
My family sees this inability to let go as proof they are right.
Fuck you, Joe. Your success is in the fact that commenters like DW are still touting your same old schtick.
Drives you nuts doesn't it Stef!! That has got to be one of THE most annoying things that Mo's say. Of course we don't 'leave it alone' it was bloody nearly our whole lives for however long and there is plenty to 'un-do'/process/be mad at!
ReplyDeleteA good TBM friend of mine said some understanding things when I left, they said that they knew that the religion would always be a part of my life in some way because I will always be an ex-mo and never a 'neverbeenMo'... so there are scars as well as beauty spots, all attributable to the Church. It will never be my home again but I won't be able to cut it out of me either... and that is fine too. I think that we have a unique experience upon which to draw as we go about the rest of our lives.
Wooohooo to being out.
I suspect this may be true of most religions, but Mormons seem to have a lot of win-win type situations set up.
ReplyDeleteIf you feel the spirit and join the Church, it just shows it's true.
If you leave and deal with crap in the process, it just shows it's true.
If you leave and want nothing to do with the Church it's because it's true.
If you leave, but can't leave it alone, it's because it's true.
If you're ill and you ask God to heal you and he does, it's because he's real and loves you.
If you're ill and you ask God to heal you and he doesn't, it's because he's real and loves you and wants you to learn a lesson.
There is something to be said for simple logic.
If I might put in a plug for DW... She/He was just doing what they have been asked to do by their leaders. Get out on the interwebs and defend the good name of the Church. I'm sure DW came here with the best of intentions, and was no doubt hurt by some of the stuff I said about her/his beloved religion.
Of course on the other hand... Cruising the web, defending the kingdom of God, means that they have also likely come across the reasons why people like me leave. And the fact that she like has, and yet still feels the need to judge, criticize and call me to repentance is what makes me a little testy.
Oh - and thanks for the comments Maureen, Stef and Winkinatcha - as well as J-Dog and Eve. And even DW... You helped to remind me why I avoid interactions with members.