I referenced a rumor yesterday which might indicate that couples who depart from Mormonism have a high rate of divorce. I've had some thoughts about why and thought I might share them.
If you are actively Mormon, then some of what I am going to say, may be offensive. I'm going to make some broad generalizations. If it offends you, either you don't fit the generalization, or I may have pointed out a chink in your armor. Either way, you can choose to deal with it as you wish.
OK...
Let's first consider the motivations for marriage.
Mormons are huge on the no sex before marriage thing. In fact the guidelines recommend minimal physical contact prior to marriage. And yet despite all of this, most of the lessons which young men receive (maybe the young women too) are about sex. It's a lot like my theory behind the porn problem in Utah. If you constantly talk about it, it's all that is going to be on peoples mind.
So for young men, it's an almost constant barrage of... you can't have SEX, you can't have SEX, you can't have SEX... SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX.
Maybe I'm just a horny freak, but a huge motivator for me to get married was simply that... SEX!!! I don't think I'm much of an exception though.
So with the typical mormon guys, they date a little, some make moral mistakes and some don't... And then you get shipped off for two years into a situation where you are almost entirely excluded from the opposite sex.
You return from that, and everything you hear is about marriage... You have to do it quick, and you have to stay clean, and not have SEX, SEX, SEX, SEX.
I would suspect the vast majority of Mormon men, get married to have sex. Yes, you have to kind of like the other person, but ultimately, you have to tie the knot to get laid.
I don't know for sure about the young ladies, but from what I've observed, their motivation comes from continued teaching of their role as wives and in producing children. Good Mormon woman get married and then give their husband lots and lots of children.
She needs to pop out kids, keep them all neat, polite and respectful, keep the house clean, and take care of her husband.
Now her husband can't just be any guy... He has to be a good Mormon Priesthood holder, because without a good Mormon Priesthood holder, she won't make it back into heaven. And marrying a good priesthood holder, means she has to appear to be the perfect wife, and produce lots and lots of kids.
So men get married for sex. And women get married because they have to find a good man to produce children for.
There's another little twist as well... Young Women constantly get warned about the dangers of waiting to get married. There was a flawed teaching some years ago that kind of indicated that if a woman didn't receive any kind of marriage proposal in this life, that God would take care of it in the next. However if she did get a proposal and turned it down, that was it for her.
So you have groups of guys out looking for wives so they can have sex, and a group of women, who are terrified that if they don't get married they're doomed.
And so they get together, date for a week or two, get engaged, and then married a couple of months later. It has to be quick, because the Man has to have sex, and the woman has to snag the Man so he can't get away.
And so begins the typical Mormon couples wife together.
My father has stated before that any two people living the Mormon Gospel can live together, and I would submit that as true. Of course if there are problems you can always tie it back and blame one of the couple for not being tolerant enough, patient enough or righteous enough.
But with a shared religious system as strict and stringent as Mormonism, most people can make it work. Your goals become attaining exhalation and you're continually focused on that. The husband - if he's a good one is always taking care of church stuff, and the wife is always keeping the house clean and taking care of the children.
The rub is that is either of them don't do as well in their respective duties then it HAS to be because of some sort of sin, and the herd mentality helps correct that behavior, or at least mask it.
A man might be an abusive dick to his wife, beating her and the kids, but he might also be a bishop, and so it's an acceptable thing for the wife to have to endure. He's obviously righteous - hence the call to be a bishop, so obviously she must be the reasons for the beatings. This is actually a fairly common problem with Mormon leaders - not all of them mind you, but I think to attain leadership positions, you need to be the tough, egotistical type, and those types are usually the abusive types too - just my observation though.
There are a whole host of other dynamics and things which might happen here.
Let's turn our attention instead to what happens when a couple leaves Mormonism... Either one or both of them.
All of a sudden you're faced with reality. You have to deal with now, because you're not longer consumed with the eternal goal. Mormons may see that as a negative, but I think it's a plus. You get to actually live your life as a couple. It's kinda cool!
So you're living in reality, dealing with reality, and facing stuff as it happens.
All of a sudden character flaws become more apparent. This person isn't going to be perfect one day... They're imperfect now, and that's who you're stuck with now.
And while all this is going on, you're having to deal with the loss of a shared reality.
As I've drifted from Mormonism, I've noticed that I have a hard time conversing with Mormons. Everything Mormons talk about is Mormon related. It's why one of the most important thing for Mormons to know about other people is their status in the Church. If they're active they can share a common dialogue. Little Johnny is a sunbeam, they're learning some new songs for the mothers day program, and he said the blessing on the food last night.
You lose your very specific gender roles as well. The man is no longer the head of the household, leading the family back to God, and the wife is no longer the doormat who has to raise the kids and support her husband.
You become a true couple, working together at whatever it is you're working on, and sometimes, with the loss of the Church, you're not entirely sure what that is.
It's very disorienting, and I would suspect that there are as many issues as there are couple who leave, or where one spouse leaves.
I guess at the end of the day, it makes sense to me as to why couple who leave the Church would split. Perhaps with the loss of a shared religion they realize that they really have nothing in common.
Mrs Koda and I have found some common ground and we're working on keeping our union intact. There are issues, many of which are a direct result of a shared background in Mormonism, but we're facing them together to try and deal with them.
I personally feel like we're closer now. We don't have the gospel in common, but we have each other, and I for one am very grateful.
This is a very interesting (and good) post, but I think your take on why Mormon women get married is slightly empty. While I think that, yes, being good wives and mothers (having children by the bucket full) is definitely focused on, sex plays a pretty big role for a lot of women too.
ReplyDeleteAnd maybe that's just what I viewed via my age group. I was around plenty of women who were engaged and pretty dang excited about that first night. Lingerie galore.
I agree with The Heretic, a large part of why I was anxious to get married was the SEX. But that was only after I met someone I was compatible with in that way. I did want the whole family thing that we were told is the ultimate goal, but I didn’t feel rushed to get married for that reason. I only felt rushed when I met someone I really wanted to have sex with. Add to that the enormous pressure to get married in the temple and you have two people who will get married very quickly, possibly before really getting to know each other.
ReplyDeletePlus, when you get married young, as most Mormons do, you change as a person over the years. Sometimes the person you are after you’ve grown up is not compatible with the person your spouse has grown up to be.
It's like the Mormon church WANTS to create hasty, unhappy marriages! I'm amazed that so many people stay with the religion when it places so many unhealthy burdens on people.
ReplyDeleteSUPPOSEDLY the number of children that a family should have is to be decided upon by the husband and wife, but when a family's "righteousness" is judged by the number of children...
ReplyDeleteI've mentioned my ex a few times on the blog, and while we were indeed close, I felt more and more confident that her primary reason for wanting to marry me as quickly as possible was so she could finally get away from home. Cases of physical abuse directed towards me were piling up and I'd spent years waiting for her to basically grow up. So I feel like I dodged a bullet. The same may hold true for her too because it was quite a good thing that we weren't in the same room during the incident that became the straw that broke the camel's back. I hadn't been that angry in years and I get violent when I lose my temper.
There's a story told of a young couple getting sealed in the temple. The officiator is giving them a few word of counsel about how special and wonderful it is to be sealed for time and all eternity, etc., and he says to the groom, "Isn't this the most exciting moment of your life?"
ReplyDeleteThe guy says, "No, but we're gettin' there."
Great post. My spouse and I were just talking about this last night. I was reiterating to him that for Mormon males the rush to get married seems to be about SEX and for women it's about crossing more things off of the never-ending eternal check list.
ReplyDeleteI think it's interesting that the other ladies on here were motivated by the sex too. I can honestly and truthfully say that sex was NOT my motivation at all. Sadly it was not even on my radar. I was so "chaste", so prude and so young when I got married that I wasn't even aware of what to expect when it came to sex and intimacy. I was actually afraid of having sex. It seemed so carnal and "natural-man" like. But that's the way church leaders taught us young women to be. It has taken me almost a decade to loosen up about sex and become comfortable in my own skin. I would have never made as much progress as I have in this area if I was still an active Mormon.
Sex is a goal for women too, as is fulfilling expectations--but I'd offer a slightly different take on the expectations to be filled. Many women, just like many men, are highly competitive. When denied the opportunity to be their authentic selves--e.g. to compete (with others or against themselves) in the academic arena--those urges don't go away, they're just repurposed. Often, they're repurposed in unwholesome directions.
ReplyDeleteI, personally, know several women who suffered from the "first" syndrome: the first to have a serious boyfriend, the first to get married, the first to have a house, the first to have an adorable baby. All their friends were jealous--in the Mormon universe, "success" for women is equated with achieving these things--and they felt a sense of accomplishment and purpose in their lives. Only, once those (ultimately rather meaningless, by virtue of their motivations) goals had been achieved...then what? The rest of life--a life empty of meaningful achievement--stretched before them.
Men may get married to have sex, but the spectrum of successes open to them aren't limited by the confines of so-called "traditional" marriage. Men are encouraged to find success outside of the home--as everything from CEO's to football players--while women are actively discouraged. For the average LDS woman, getting married is the only way to individuate from her parents without being labeled "rebellious".
I know several successful LDS women--who are married, incidentally--who pretty much receive nothing but scorn for their achievements. I'm talking about medical doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, forest rangers, etc--who're constantly told, "you're sinning, you're going to Hell". Why? Because they're daring to work outside the home--they're not having babies. And these are women who are killing themselves to be "traditional" wives AND seek personal fulfillment at the same time.
Women don't get married because they're just so in love with those teachings; they get married because they're deathly afraid of them.
Rock's comment reminded me of an old joke I still have saved on the computer somewhere.
ReplyDeleteDuring a airplane flight, a priest and a rabbi were sitting next to each other and conversing about religion when the captain suddenly announced that the engines had failed and the passengers were to be ready for a crash landing.
The priest looked at the rabbi and said, "Since these may be our final moments I feel we should get some long-held secrets off our chest so we can die without regrets."
The rabbi nodded and said, "Ask me anything."
The priest thought for a second before asking, "Have you ever eaten any ham?"
The rabbi nodded and explained, "Yes. One day I had a moment of weakness and partook of a ham dinner. My turn: Have you ever had sex?"
The priest blushed heavily before nodding, "Yes. At one time when I was younger I met a lovely woman, wooed her, and had sex with her."
The rabbit gave a hearty laugh and exclaimed, "Sure beats the hell out of ham, doesn't it?"
I'll tell you, and maybe it's a function of my being a convert? but I doubt that's true for too many. That said, I've heard some very very sad stories regarding women and that first night.
ReplyDeleteGirls want to have sex lots too. We were very handsy before we were sealed, very handsy on the way to the hotel after (which we couldn't get to fast enough stupidroadwork! took us twice the time to get there than it should've)
I don't doubt that you're right at all, but girls can be just as horny just as much as they feel pressured to marry and have babies.
Just realized I basically repeated what Heretic said, but y'know. :D
Thanks Guys! Excellent discussion.
ReplyDeleteI think if we were to categorize people - which I hate to do, but it kind of fits here... Mrs Koda is very similar to H.L. So chaste that it's almost created an aversion to sex. It's getting better, but it's taken a while to get that Church thinking out of her mind.
I think some women might fall into the trap of thinking they're supposed to want sex, but deep inside they don't really want it. Mrs Koda has someone that she knows who commented once... "Does Mike want it all the time?" Turns out sex is a pain both physically and mentally for this person, and yet, if you'd seen the couple of their wedding day, and shortly thereafter, that was all they seemed to be interested in... And at subsequent weddings where we've seen them, they're both really into talking about the couples upcoming wedding night. Just weird.
Anyway, good discussion folks, and thanks for your input. It's a tough topic, and I think at the end of the day, the only thing for sure is that the Church spends way to much time messing with bed time!